Eric and Dale are friends with a strongly held disagreement on the path forward for the ICS security community. The disagreement has been batted back and forth in their respective blogs. Now they bring it on stage. Is Eric a SCADA Realist or SCADA Apologist? Is Dale correctly calling people out or a crazy dreamer causing more harm than good? In this session they will have five minute opening statements of their positions, and then be able to ask each other questions and directly address the others position. Then the audience will have the opportunity to ask questions and voice their opinions.